Talk:Ether

HM Land Registry: Registration Services fees

As of 2023, the average house price in the UK has seen various changes throughout the year. In September 2023, the average house price was reported to be £291,000​​.

In the UK, all property purchases and changes in land ownership must be registered with the HM Land Registry.

For a house purchase in the UK valued at £291,000, the fee to the HM Land Registry varies depending on the method of application. The fees are as follows:

• If you apply by post, the fee is £330.
• If you apply using the portal or Business Gateway for transfers or surrenders which affect the whole of a registered title, the fee is £150.
• For registration of all leases and transfers or surrenders which affect part of a registered title, the fee is also £330 if done via the portal or Business Gateway​​.

An alternative to maintaining a register of land ownership in England and Wales via HM Land Registry is via a blockchain-based system, such as Ethereum.

Estimating the exact fees for a blockchain-based land registry system like Ethereum is challenging due to the variability and complexity of blockchain transactions. However, a rough estimate based on typical Ethereum transaction costs is provided below:

1. Gas Fees: Ethereum transactions require gas fees, which can vary widely. As of my last update in April 2023, average gas fees could range from a few dollars to tens of dollars per transaction, depending on network congestion and transaction complexity.
2. Smart Contract Operations: Property transactions on Ethereum would likely involve smart contracts. The cost for executing these could be higher than simple transfers due to their complexity.
3. Additional Costs: There could be additional costs for services like smart contract deployment, legal compliance checks, or integration with existing systems.

In summary, while a blockchain system might reduce certain administrative overheads, the variability of gas fees and the complexity of smart contract operations make it difficult to provide a precise figure. A rough estimate could range from a few dollars to over a hundred dollars per transaction, but this is highly speculative and would depend on the specific design and implementation of the system.

A table comparing the costs for the HM Land Registry and a hypothetical blockchain-based land registry system like Ethereum

Criteria	HM Land Registry (For a £291,000 Property)	Blockchain-Based System (Ethereum)
Application Fee	£330 (if applied by post). £150 (if using the portal or Business Gateway)	Variable (depending on Ethereum gas fees and complexity of the transaction)
Transaction Complexity	Standard procedure for all transactions	Could vary greatly; more complex transactions (like those involving smart contracts) could incur higher fees
Additional Costs	Not typically applicable	Potential costs for smart contract deployment, legal compliance, system integration, etc.
Variability	Fixed based on property value	Highly variable, depends on network congestion and specific transaction requirements

This table is a rough comparison and should be taken as an estimate. The actual costs, especially for the blockchain-based system, would depend on various dynamic factors, including the state of the Ethereum network at the time of the transaction.

Other costs to consider include the potential risks associated with the central authority of a traditional land registry system, such as HM Land Registry, acting improperly or recording incorrect transactions. Although this might seem improbable, especially in a well-regulated environment like the UK, the possibility exists. For instance, errors could arise from internal mismanagement or external manipulation, leading to inaccurate or fraudulent property records. In contrast, a blockchain-based system aims to mitigate such risks through its decentralized and tamper-evident nature, providing an additional layer of security against unauthorized alterations or errors in the registry.

The search fee at HM Land Registry varies depending on the type of search being conducted. Common searches include title register searches, title plan searches, and property ownership searches. As of my last update, these fees were relatively low, often ranging from a few pounds to around £15 or more for more comprehensive searches.

Finding a real-world example where the Land Registry or another central entity acted improperly can be challenging due to the nature of these institutions. However, there are documented cases of difficulties and inefficiencies within such systems. For example:

1. Correction of Mistakes: There have been instances where it was difficult to correct mistakes made by the Land Registry. Even when the Land Registry acknowledged a mistake, they couldn't always rectify it without the agreement of the affected property owners. This could lead to complex situations requiring formal applications for register alteration and potential legal disputes​​.
2. Response to Complaints and Access Issues: Complaints have been raised about the Land Registry's response to delays, access issues for non-professionals to its online services, and handling inquiries from customers with disabilities​​.
3. Discretionary Powers and Delays: In some cases, the Land Registry's discretionary powers have been used in ways that have led to prolonged and expensive application processes. This includes instances where the Land Registry's discretion has been used to favor objectors to an application, potentially leading to unnecessary delays and expenses​​.

These examples illustrate some of the challenges and inefficiencies that can arise in a centrally managed land registry system, highlighting areas where improvements could be made.

As of the financial year 2022-2023, HM Land Registry reported a total revenue of £318.9 million​​. This figure represents the income generated from various services offered by the Land Registry, such as registration fees, search fees, and other related services.

£'000	2021-2022	2020-2021
Fees and charges revenue
Registration of title	307,023	226,042
Land charges and agricultural credits	7,279	6,269
Local land charges	408	225
Total fees and charges revenue	314,710	235,536
Commercial income
Income from commercial activities	4,219	3,857
Total commercial income	4,219	3,857
Total revenue and other income	318,929	236,393

As of 2023, HM Land Registry completed a significant number of applications to change or query the Land Register each month. For instance, in January 2023, there were more than 1,777,640 applications, in March 2023, the number was 2,026,527, in July 2023, over 1,822,170 applications, and in September 2023, over 1,730,760 applications were completed​​​​​​​​.

However, I was unable to find a consolidated annual total for 2023. These monthly figures suggest that the annual total is likely to be in the millions, but without the complete data for each month, it's challenging to provide an exact annual figure. For a precise total number of registrations for the year, the complete set of monthly data or an annual summary report from HM Land Registry would be required.

Here's a comparison of the fees for the UK Land Registry and a blockchain-based platform like Ethereum as of 2023:

UK Land Registry Fees (2023):

• Scale 1 Fees (for transfers or surrenders affecting the whole of a registered title)
  • £0 - £80,000: £45 (by post), £20 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
  • £80,001 - £100,000: £95 (by post), £40 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
  • £100,001 - £200,000: £230 (by post), £100 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
  • £200,001 - £500,000: £330 (by post), £150 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
  • £500,001 - £1,000,000: £655 (by post), £295 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
  • £1,000,001 and over: £1,105 (by post), £500 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
• Scale 2 Fees (for transfers of whole, charges of whole, etc.)
  • £0 - £100,000: £45 (by post), £20 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
  • £100,001 - £200,000: £70 (by post), £30 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
  • £200,001 - £500,000: £100 (by post), £45 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
  • £500,001 - £1,000,000: £145 (by post), £65 (using the portal or Business Gateway)
  • £1,000,001 and over: £305 (by post), £140 (using the portal or Business Gateway)​​.

Ethereum Blockchain Fees (2023):

• Transaction Fees: Approximately $1.15 per transaction (regardless of the transaction value)​​.

Key Observations:

• Variability: UK Land Registry fees vary significantly based on the value or amount of the transaction and the method of application (by post or using the portal/Business Gateway). In contrast, Ethereum's fees are flat per transaction.
• Cost Efficiency for Higher Values: For higher-value transactions, Ethereum's flat fee could be significantly more cost-effective than the tiered structure of the UK Land Registry.
• Simplicity and Predictability: Ethereum's flat fee structure offers simplicity and predictability, as users know the exact cost upfront for any transaction, regardless of its size.

This comparison highlights the differences in fee structures between traditional government-run services and blockchain-based platforms, underscoring the potential cost efficiencies offered by blockchain technology, especially for larger transactions.

For a property value of £291,000, the fees would be as follows:

Service	Transaction Value	Fee (UK Land Registry)	Fee (Ethereum Blockchain)
UK Land Registry (Scale 1)	£291,000	£330 (by post), £150 (using the portal)	$1.15 per transaction
UK Land Registry (Scale 2)	£291,000	£100 (by post), £45 (using the portal)	$1.15 per transaction

In this scenario, the UK Land Registry fees vary depending on the service scale and method of application, while the Ethereum blockchain maintains a consistent fee of $1.15 per transaction.

Finding specific yearly data for UK Land Registry Scale 1 transactions is challenging as the information is not directly available online. The available data generally focuses on overall property transactions, like the UK monthly property transactions data, which includes statistics for both non-seasonally adjusted and seasonally adjusted residential transactions. For instance, from April to October in the financial year 2023 to 2024, there were 600,120 non-seasonally adjusted and 589,470 seasonally adjusted transactions.

The annualized figure for non-seasonally adjusted residential transactions in the UK for the financial year 2023 to 2024 is approximately 1,028,777 transactions. The annualized figure for seasonally adjusted transactions is approximately 1,010,520 transactions.

The table below provides a comparative analysis of fees associated with transferring ownership of an average-priced property in the UK after a sale, as charged by the HM Land Registry and Ethereum. This comparison specifically focuses on transactions following property sales, excluding those related to inheritances.

	HM Land Registry (online service)	Blockchain-Based System (Ethereum)
Number of Transactions	1,000,000	1,000,000
Individual Transaction Fee	£150	£1
Total annual cost	£150,000,000	£1,000,000

Based on our outlined assumptions, transferring the ownership of an average-priced property in the UK through Ethereum incurs costs that are a staggering 99% lower compared to using the HM Land Registry platform. This approach could yield annual savings of approximately £149 million.

When we consider the global property market, which is roughly 167 times larger than the UK market, the potential for cost savings escalates dramatically. By adopting Ethereum for property ownership transfers on a global scale, instead of relying on centralized databases like HM Land Registry, the estimated annual cost savings could reach an impressive £24.83 billion.

Furthermore, if we apply this cost-saving strategy across various other industries that could benefit from blockchain technology, the financial impact becomes even more significant. The potential for substantial cost reductions in these sectors is immense, underscoring the transformative power of adopting Ethereum and similar blockchain solutions in diverse marketplaces.

161.12.100.241 10:46, 1 December 2023 (GMT)

Is it possible to use Blockchain to manage all investment transactions?

Yes, it is possible to use blockchain technology to manage investment transactions. Blockchain offers several features that can be beneficial in this context:

1. Decentralization: Unlike traditional systems, blockchain operates on a decentralized network. This means there's no central authority, potentially reducing the risks associated with central points of failure.
2. Transparency and Traceability: Every transaction on a blockchain is recorded on a public ledger, which is visible to all network participants. This enhances the transparency of transactions and makes it easier to trace the history of investments.
3. Security: Blockchain technology is known for its high level of security. The use of cryptography in blockchain ensures that transactions are secure and tamper-proof.
4. Reduced Transaction Costs and Times: Blockchain can streamline processes and remove intermediaries, potentially reducing costs and transaction times.
5. Smart Contracts: These are self-executing contracts with the terms of the agreement between buyer and seller being directly written into code. They can automate processes, like the release of funds or assets, once certain conditions are met.
6. Tokenization of Assets: Blockchain allows for the tokenization of assets, including real estate, art, or shares of a company. This can make investments more accessible and liquid.

However, there are also challenges and considerations:

• Regulatory Compliance: The legal framework surrounding blockchain and cryptocurrency is still evolving. Any system must comply with existing financial regulations.
• Scalability: High volumes of transactions can lead to congestion on the network, potentially slowing down processing times and increasing costs.
• Market Adoption: For such a system to be effective, it would need widespread adoption by investors, companies, and regulatory bodies.
• Technical Complexity and Education: Implementing a blockchain-based system requires technical expertise, and users would need to be educated on how to interact with such a system.

In summary, while blockchain has the potential to revolutionize investment transaction management, its implementation must be carefully planned, considering technical, regulatory, and practical aspects. 2.28.124.57 19:23, 3 December 2023 (GMT)

What is the cost comparison between traditional approach and Blockchain approach?

Comparing the costs between traditional financial systems and blockchain-based systems involves several factors. The costs in each approach can vary greatly depending on the specific use case, scale, and implementation. Here's a general overview of the cost considerations in both approaches:

Traditional Financial Systems

1. Operational Costs: Traditional systems often involve significant operational costs, including staffing, physical infrastructure (like branches and offices), and maintenance of IT systems.
2. Intermediary Fees: Transactions usually involve multiple intermediaries (like banks, brokers, and clearing houses), each charging fees for their services.
3. Compliance and Regulatory Costs: Adhering to financial regulations and standards can be costly, especially with the need for regular audits and compliance checks.
4. Transaction Costs and Speed: Traditional systems can have slower transaction times (especially for cross-border transactions), and fees can be high due to multiple intermediaries.
5. Fraud and Security Costs: Costs associated with fraud prevention, data breaches, and other security measures can be significant.

Blockchain Systems

1. Initial Setup Costs: Implementing a blockchain system can require substantial initial investment in technology development, infrastructure, and expertise.
2. Network Costs: Operating a blockchain, especially a public one, involves costs related to the computing power and energy required to validate transactions (especially in proof-of-work systems).
3. Scalability Costs: As transaction volume grows, blockchain networks can become more expensive to scale compared to traditional databases.
4. Regulatory Uncertainty: The evolving regulatory landscape can introduce costs related to compliance, legal advice, and adapting to new regulations.
5. Security and Maintenance: While blockchain is secure by design, maintaining this security, especially for large and complex networks, can be costly.
6. Smart Contract Development and Audit: Developing and auditing smart contracts to automate processes can be expensive due to the need for specialized skills.

Cost Comparison

• Efficiency Gains: Blockchain can reduce the need for intermediaries, potentially lowering transaction costs and improving efficiency in the long term.
• Transparency and Automation: Blockchain's transparent nature and the use of smart contracts can reduce administrative and compliance costs.
• Economies of Scale: As blockchain technology matures and is adopted more widely, its cost-effectiveness may improve due to economies of scale.

In conclusion, while blockchain offers potential cost savings and efficiency gains, the initial investment and ongoing maintenance can be significant. The cost-effectiveness of blockchain compared to traditional systems depends on the specific use case, scale, and how well the technology is implemented and adopted. 2.28.124.57 19:25, 3 December 2023 (GMT)

Stocks and shares use case

For the use case of stocks and shares, blockchain technology presents some unique advantages and challenges in terms of costs when compared to traditional systems. Let's break down these costs:

Traditional System Costs in Stocks and Shares

1. Brokerage and Commission Fees: Traditional stock trading involves brokerage fees, which can vary depending on the service provider.
2. Clearing and Settlement Costs: The process of clearing and settling stock trades typically involves third parties, which adds time and cost.
3. Regulatory Compliance: Maintaining compliance with financial regulations is a significant cost factor, especially for cross-border transactions.
4. Operational Expenses: Costs associated with staff, physical infrastructure, IT systems, and customer service.
5. Audit and Reconciliation: Regular financial audits and the need for reconciliation to ensure accuracy and integrity of transactions.

Blockchain System Costs in Stocks and Shares

1. Initial Implementation: Setting up a blockchain-based trading system requires investment in technology, infrastructure, and expertise.
2. Smart Contract Development: Developing smart contracts for automated trading and compliance can be costly due to the need for specialized skills.
3. Network and Transaction Fees: While blockchain can reduce intermediary costs, it still incurs network fees, especially on platforms like Ethereum where gas fees can be high.
4. Regulatory Adaptation: As blockchain in finance is still an emerging field, adapting to and complying with existing and evolving regulations can be a significant cost.
5. Security and Maintenance: Ongoing costs related to maintaining the security and integrity of the blockchain network.

Cost Comparison for Stocks and Shares

• Efficiency and Speed: Blockchain can potentially reduce settlement times from T+2 days (traditional) to almost instantaneously, enhancing efficiency and reducing holding costs.
• Reduced Intermediary Fees: By disintermediating processes, blockchain can lower the costs associated with brokers and clearinghouses.
• Transparency and Reduced Audit Costs: The inherent transparency of blockchain can simplify audit processes and reduce related costs.
• Global Access and Lowered Barrier to Entry: Blockchain can facilitate global access to stock markets, potentially reducing costs associated with cross-border transactions.

However, it's important to note that the adoption of blockchain in the realm of stocks and shares is still in a nascent stage. The actual cost savings and benefits would depend heavily on the scale of implementation, regulatory acceptance, and the technological solutions employed. While blockchain offers the promise of increased efficiency and reduced costs in some areas, the transition from traditional systems comes with its own set of challenges and initial expenses. 2.28.124.57 19:26, 3 December 2023 (GMT)